Pluses of Each: Short and Long Forms

[Nancy]

Short form taste:
Custardy
Short form uses:
gentle and mild custard to which one could add
I am surprised by how much by itself I welcome a good break from Kefir sourness no matter how much one may like kefir sourness.

Long form taste:
May be custardy but the thickness of the jell created by the cremoris bacteria ropy stringiness distracts strongly from that custardy-ness. In fact those who have only LF experience may not even know the benefit of the short, the custardy effect is so much more delectable.
Long form uses:
In smoothie it would add thickness and protein

I was able to try both though no US supplier offers the short form, because it took a while in Hawai'i for the cremoris to develop (?) at least I think so... also I began smearing cultured viili on the sides of the jars used and that may have been better than simply adding it to milk. As Nathan says somewhere one does not stir viili at all nor spoon in until ready to eat.

Short form can be found outside the US on ebay.

[Nancy]

Research can be found on line about the effects of the cremoris bacteria. Maybe it will help to give a brief summary for two links up yesterday on another thread. Cremoris is the only bacterium that the short form viili lacks. Bifidobacgterium digests fiber in the large intestine and the fiber when digested makes short chain fatty acids and B vitamins is very important and is in the bodies of babies and adults who were breast fed

One article by Finnish researchers (2006) about research conducted in Finland discusses the effect of the gel matrix on adherence of bifidobacterium lactis and lactobacillus rhamnosus to large intestine walls. These two elimination-oriented bacteria showed up causing question worth looking into the article answers by saying adherence to LI walls is affected by the matrix. Well! should or shall I start to worry about viili consumption in long form after all the time viili is so loved and consumed in Scandinavia? Another longer article is about research conducted by Chinese researchers at a pharmacy university in China dated 2016. It is easier to digest. Titled Viili as Fermented Food in Health and Disease Prevention and it is a pdf. The links are on the viii-kefir thread.

[Nancy]

'So if one wants to try short form viili heat long form viili in warm water.'

'Next day: that doesn't work. I tried beginning viili culture in hot tap water bath, and 'dissolving' gelled viili culture in hot tap water bath.' And still got rope. But....! A day later.... above quotes from the v-k thread.... we see: Success.

Exciting result! For me, definitely exciting, and I must emphasize, the short form viili is a more calm and tasty version of the flavor you like about Long form viili because it lacks the cremoris 'distraction' - I woke up today and tried the viilis I had submitted to the above treatment from the point of smearing the sides of the jar with long form viili. The cremoris is gone. It did not survive and what Is eft is back to what I enjoyed before the cremoris became activated over the course of time. I get too wordy and hope I am clear. You can try short form viili if you do something similar with a test jar of your own long form. Yay.

It may revert back.... the original grains were long form and contained cremoris. They didn't come from yemoos. I must remind everyone I have yemoos long form viili in the freezer pending carrying later by plane. But if the viili gets ropey I now know what to do. I truly do not like the rope - maybe if I were a child I would be intrigued and charmed by it though which is not to say that all who consume the LF are children. But they have assumed there is no alternative I think as that's what I did.

[Nancy]

Boy am I doing well! And wish the same for everyone. Fermenting not only dairy but tried out cooked (and later will try raw) purple potatoes and some cooked cooled split peas with a little kefir. Bubbles galore, and effects on sense of well-being skyrocket (of course it is necessary to continuously pray inside just to remember that all this bounty is coming from God)! So why am I back so soon. Here is a succinct direction for how to remove cremoris from long form if you want to do that but... note it is a plus for thickness in smoothies and may have made a difference by itself in patterns of elimination. [Don't know as I am also tinkering with amounts of Anthony's Potato Starch (not Bob's Red Mill because I communicated directly with Customer Service and they unequivocally said, no ours is not Resistant Starch. We use high heat in drying and we cannot and do not market it as such. The amount of communication over the last decade on line about that is coniderable. Anthony's on the other hand doe market its potato starch as rs. It tastes different and I like Anthony's anyway.

Anyway, I put some into second fermenting kefir. People add rs to kefir at night. Potatoes increase not only calm great deep calm but also dreaming evidently. I don't care about that so much and no data on it but you can find a pdf of information of the effects of many foods and flowers which originated with Pegasus Products on line if you search. Potato information is in there and it dovetails with people's experiences using potato starch to get buyrate among other benefits in the intestines.]
+
HERE IS the way to remove cremoris from LF viili:
1. Smear LF viili on inside of a jar with a lid.
2. Add milk.
3. Put lid on jar.
4. Put jar into hottest tap water you can get.
5. Repeat a couple of times as long as you want I did not continue this beyond maybe ... two three hours of switching hot water. I wouldn't know what would happen with far hotter water.

The point is, cremoris won't live above 86 degrees. II will enter dormition. It may be latent. Unclear yet whether it actually dies and never returns.

6. Remove jar.
7. Remove lid and cover with cloth.
8. Place on counter.
9. Check on it it may take longer than you expect.
10. When it gels put a lid on it and put it in the refrigerator. It is ready to eat.

If this does not work as I stated, try it again. What you get is kind mild and gentle short form viili.

[Nancy]

I am sorry but one more thing. What lies underneath the interest in fermentation is wariness, now, about fiber. gutsense.org is the work of someone with a remarkable pedigree - both native intelligence and health history to say the very least about his health history. I am not being paid anything to mention anything I mention: it occurred to me that I had to post this, too, during morning prayer so I interrupted myself to come here:

https://www.gutsense.org/author/about-k ... yrsky.html

[Nancy]

The viili culture is continuing to produce short form viili without matrix.

[Nancy]

The short form is continuing to produce short form with no return of matrix.

This is good news as the taste surpasses long form because less distracting by the tasteless matrix. Gentle taste.

Either form can be used in combining viili and kefir grains to make viili-kefir if one lines a jar to which regular kefir grains - caution as Nathan writes in the blog the grains may change - they do change I have experimented for several weeks. It seems a permanent change in the grains and what they produce is a gentler form of kefir: sour for sure, but gentler. Read thread on this topic for a little more detail.

[Nancy]

After all I wrote, now I like the long form 'just fine!' It develops slowly from a manufactured Short form of the kind I made and so that proves that cremoris will not die. It refuses to but can be removed for several weeks before it gradually creeps back.

[vicky2]

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