Statistics: Posted by vicky2 — Fri May 08, 2020 10:53 am
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Statistics: Posted by Nancy — Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:56 am
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This is good news as the taste surpasses long form because less distracting by the tasteless matrix. Gentle taste.
Either form can be used in combining viili and kefir grains to make viili-kefir if one lines a jar to which regular kefir grains - caution as Nathan writes in the blog the grains may change - they do change I have experimented for several weeks. It seems a permanent change in the grains and what they produce is a gentler form of kefir: sour for sure, but gentler. Read thread on this topic for a little more detail.
Statistics: Posted by Nancy — Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:02 am
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The taste of short form viili is better by far for me than long form because the matrix in the long form is distracting, very distracting. Fun and novel but not tasty.
Statistics: Posted by Nancy — Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:53 am
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It seems that the mixture made with these grains alone, treating them as if they were kefir grains, they culture producing a thicker mixture but for some reason maybe someone else has an idea about... the culture will produce whey when done but not nearly as much, not as obvious, no matter how long left to culture. One finally has to refrigerate.
As to taste, sour but gentler, milder. Not as bland as short form viili might seem to some though. It is a combination of kefir and viili.
Statistics: Posted by Nancy — Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:50 am
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These jars contain viili-kefir associated / affiliated grains I have preserved for a couple of weeks or so. To remind readers, these are the grains I used from the beginning of the quest to combine the cultures if possible. I reserved them. As to the jars they were not lined / coated with viili. Milk was added to each. Happens to be ultra high heat pasteurized the only kind available here. Works fine for all culturing.
One jar had a lid and the other one had a cloth. We are seeing the results of only the grains, the modified grains.
As an important aside! I am also culturing viili (the new 'short form' by itself with a lid. It is coagulating fine without the cloth and with a lid from the moment I added milk to a lined / coated jar though it may have taken a little longer. Not sure about that.
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Back to the two jars report:
Both jars coagulated/cultured I just checked. The jar with the cloth went slightly faster but the jar with the lid is not far behind. The jar with the cloth is being lidded and placed in refrigerator.
Note on consistency:
1. very very thick.
2.A slight tendency to a teeny bit more of a pronounced drip effect then normal kefir handled the same way if liquid is left to fall from the spoon, in either culture. This implies viili is merely sleeping but is not at all pronounced and the thickness is satisfactory and greater than kefir even though my normal kefir always cultured with a id and always stirred regularly with some enthusiasm is quite thick.
Taste, who knows or rather I do have some idea based on experience I'm not tasting these jars soon but they will be refrigerated. It has both bite and gentleness. Yippee, for the near term.
Statistics: Posted by Nancy — Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:25 pm
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https://www.gutsense.org/author/about-k ... yrsky.html
Statistics: Posted by Nancy — Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:38 pm
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Anyway, I put some into second fermenting kefir. People add rs to kefir at night. Potatoes increase not only calm great deep calm but also dreaming evidently. I don't care about that so much and no data on it but you can find a pdf of information of the effects of many foods and flowers which originated with Pegasus Products on line if you search. Potato information is in there and it dovetails with people's experiences using potato starch to get buyrate among other benefits in the intestines.]
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HERE IS the way to remove cremoris from LF viili:
1. Smear LF viili on inside of a jar with a lid.
2. Add milk.
3. Put lid on jar.
4. Put jar into hottest tap water you can get.
5. Repeat a couple of times as long as you want I did not continue this beyond maybe ... two three hours of switching hot water. I wouldn't know what would happen with far hotter water.
The point is, cremoris won't live above 86 degrees. II will enter dormition. It may be latent. Unclear yet whether it actually dies and never returns.
6. Remove jar.
7. Remove lid and cover with cloth.
8. Place on counter.
9. Check on it it may take longer than you expect.
10. When it gels put a lid on it and put it in the refrigerator. It is ready to eat.
If this does not work as I stated, try it again. What you get is kind mild and gentle short form viili.
Statistics: Posted by Nancy — Sun Jan 05, 2020 5:22 pm
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Wow so much good information! It sounds like you love experimenting. I'm too scared to mix villi with my kefir, but its good to know you can use the short version. Thank you.
Statistics: Posted by Robinstar — Sun Jan 05, 2020 4:56 pm
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'Next day: that doesn't work. I tried beginning viili culture in hot tap water bath, and 'dissolving' gelled viili culture in hot tap water bath.' And still got rope. But....! A day later.... above quotes from the v-k thread.... we see: Success.
Exciting result! For me, definitely exciting, and I must emphasize, the short form viili is a more calm and tasty version of the flavor you like about Long form viili because it lacks the cremoris 'distraction' - I woke up today and tried the viilis I had submitted to the above treatment from the point of smearing the sides of the jar with long form viili. The cremoris is gone. It did not survive and what Is eft is back to what I enjoyed before the cremoris became activated over the course of time. I get too wordy and hope I am clear. You can try short form viili if you do something similar with a test jar of your own long form. Yay.
It may revert back.... the original grains were long form and contained cremoris. They didn't come from yemoos. I must remind everyone I have yemoos long form viili in the freezer pending carrying later by plane. But if the viili gets ropey I now know what to do. I truly do not like the rope - maybe if I were a child I would be intrigued and charmed by it though which is not to say that all who consume the LF are children. But they have assumed there is no alternative I think as that's what I did.
Statistics: Posted by Nancy — Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:29 pm
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'Next day: that doesn't work. I tried beginning viili culture in hot tap water bath, and 'dissolving' gelled viili culture in hot tap water bath.'
Exciting result! For me, definitely exciting, and I must emphasize, the short form viili is a more calm and tasty version of the flavor you like about Long form viili because it lacks the cremoris 'distraction' - I woke up today and tried the viilis I had submitted to the above treatment from the point of smearing the sides of the jar with long form viili. The cremoris is gone. It did not survive and what Is eft is back to what I enjoyed before the cremoris became activated over the course of time. I get too wordy and hope I am clear. You can try short form viili if you do something similar with a test jar of your own long form. Yay.
We will see how long this lasts. The cremoris could be lurking but no evidence of it physically. No rope.
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As to viili-kefir: Very interesting result. But another two jars are begun now to test the closed lid, used cloth alternatives. Recall that viili 'need a cloth covering' for culturing, at least that is what I read and assume is true. Because for the first 1 1/2 - 2 hours of culturing of the viili-kefir-associated grains* I used a closed lid as that is the way I culture kefir normally for reasons not the subject of this thread. Then, recalling I needed to give whatever viili influence may have permanently altered the viili-kefir affiliated grains a chance too! So, removed lid and continued culturing for @10 hours or so maybe a little less with a red-white checked thin cloth (my way of symbolizing v-k combo - red being k and white being v).
Testing the result very early this morning: it is thick, thicker than normal kefir which is usually thick because of the way I culture it. No rope at all. Has the combination of two flavors: but a milder bite from kefir and the custardy taste of viili.
*viili-kefir affiliated and viili-kefer associated grains refers to grains used in the culturing of both cultures when I decided to begin experimenting. I saved them.
SO: I am testing two jars closed and open lid having divided the viili-kefir affiliated grains. Will report back when it has completed culturing and before refrigeration.
I guess there are other angles to outline for you that I plan to test from here; I know they will occur to me as soon as I lie back down. it is extremely early and I normally am not in gear and typing and don't want to continue. Over and out! Submitting un-reread post unchecked.
Statistics: Posted by Nancy — Sun Jan 05, 2020 12:25 pm
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Next day: that doesn't work. I tried beginning viili culture in hot tap water bath, and 'dissolving' gelled viili culture in hot tap water bath.
Coming up soon though, after around 2 weeks I may have information on the results of the burning question, will it affect the grains? But must wait to actually taste the culture early tomorrow morning. Culture is complete lid on and in the refrigerator. We do not have what I initially had on beginning research ... smooth glassy surface just like gelled viili. We have something it cautiously is possible to say is new, different and stable.
I saved most of those grains somehow carefully - - ones that were used when I either lined the jar with viili or a few times, before doing that when I first tried the combination of the two cultures, spooning a little in to liquid milk at the outset of the kefir culturing.
Statistics: Posted by Nancy — Sun Jan 05, 2020 1:14 am
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One article by Finnish researchers (2006) about research conducted in Finland discusses the effect of the gel matrix on adherence of bifidobacterium lactis and lactobacillus rhamnosus to large intestine walls. These two elimination-oriented bacteria showed up causing question worth looking into the article answers by saying adherence to LI walls is affected by the matrix. Well! should or shall I start to worry about viili consumption in long form after all the time viili is so loved and consumed in Scandinavia? Another longer article is about research conducted by Chinese researchers at a pharmacy university in China dated 2016. It is easier to digest. Titled Viili as Fermented Food in Health and Disease Prevention and it is a pdf. The links are on the viii-kefir thread.
Statistics: Posted by Nancy — Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:39 pm
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